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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:24 pm 
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Thanks for the update rodneooo. So true what you say about big dollar setups failing the fundamentals like this.

I have mine setup exactly like factory at the moment and it works perfectly (10 years now!)

With the LPG setup i will lose the fuel vent and will no longer have crankcase emissions requirements, so i can diych the factory setup and charcoal canister and move to a simpler system.

This thread and your diagrams will come in very handy.

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:24 pm 
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rodneooo wrote:
ok after reviewing this thread about 50 times and inspecting diagrams of the crankcase ventilation system, this is what ive come up with.
Hopefully my pictures wont die so soon and everyone can use these diagrams of how to set it up properly.

please advise if i have it drawn up correctly. it seems right to me, but its hard to confirm without bumpstart diagrams and the internet being full of bullshit.

This is how im looking to set mine up
Image

oil filler vent, middle plate vent and charcoal canister vent all vent into the catch can.
PCV is hooked up as per factory (going off the diagram below) except instead of sucking out of the oil filler vent, it now sucks clean air out of the top of the catch can.
and under high load the turbo sucks out of the top of the catch can via a upsized hose barb via a one way valve.
I have gone with this method because i want to keep the PCV valve funtioning and dont want to have a rocker cover breather filter thing. I want to keep it as factory as legal as possible.
this is the catch can that im having made in the near future.
Image

can anyone see any problems with this arrangement?

this is the factory s5 and cosmo 13BRE setup i was using.

Image
rodneooo wrote:
anyone feel free to chime in!

My understanding of the above method is that it works exactly the same way as the factory setup, i just have a catch inline to hopefully catch any shit that might be in there before the engine eats it up via the intake or the PCV.
Sounds good to me.


I believe this is bumpstarts simplified, no PCV method

Image


Hi can you please you please re-upload the 2 images that no longer work? or re-draw them?

Still trying to get my head around this

I need to sort this out on my 12AT (with series 4 or 5 intake manifold). The middle plate vent is venting straight to atmosphere via a tube and the oil filler neck vent is venting to the charcoal canister which has holes drilled in the top of it. (btw i did not do any of this)

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:47 pm 
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sorry I don't have the images anymore. But if you read through bumps posts u get your head around it eventually.

Its pretty simple in principle. U need vacuum in the crankcase

so the simplest way to do it without the PCV valve is this.

have all your crankcase vents going into your catch can. so middle plate vent and oil filler vent going into the dirty side of your catch can.
then the clean side of the can goes your intake pre turbo with a one way valve (allowing air into the intake).

your basically putting a catch can where the very bottom black arrow is in the diagram above.

theres many different ways to hook it all up depending on what setup u have but the principal is all the same.

pre turbo vacuum in crankcase to suck out the shit. catch can in line to filter the shit so it doesn't get into your intake.


for most turbo motors the above will suffice.

if its on massive boost or is fairly loose and tired and u still get mustard in the filler neck you may need a draw through system

breather filter on middle plate vent via one way valve (flowing into the block), oil filler neck vent into dirty side of catch can, clean side of catch can to intake pre turbo with one way valve.

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:49 pm 
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Thank you for the response! I can make sense of it now!

Just to clarify... the catch can you mention is a sealed type? with no breather filter thing on it.

Can you please explain how to do it via the PCV method in your terms? The way you write it, is clear and easy for me to understand.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:12 pm 
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Yes a sealed type catch can (or oil/air separator).


The PCV method is just like it is in the diagram. with the low load path being through the PCV and the high load path to pre turbo
the only real difference in my setup is that I made the PCV suck clean air from the catch can (instead of sucking dirty air out of the oil filler neck)
and made the filler neck vent into the can.
So in theory there is no oily air getting into the intake as it has all gone through the catch can.
I also used separate ports into the can for the charcoal canisters and middle plate vent (instead of being teed together like factory) just for shits n gigs.

so my catch can has 2 ports on the clean side. (1 upsized one going to pre turbo via one way valve, and 1 going to large bottom port of PCV (the port that used to go to the oil filler neck) The other ports on the PCV hooked up as per the diagram.
and the dirty side of the can has 3 ports (sucking out of oil filler neck vent, middle plate vent and charcoal canister)


so in principal its hooked up exactly like the factory setup and is still sealed, only difference is I have added a sealed catch can before the turbo and the PCV is sucking clean air from the can.

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Hi, thanks your help!

I have attached a drawing to a link in this message, for doing it PCV method, could you please have a look at it and let me know if I've drawn it right?

https://goo.gl/photos/tbBAtbELi7pEZFNK9

I think I get what your saying for doing it PCV method, I just don't get where the lines are meant to go after PCV? One or two lines to intake manifold? or to throttle body?

If anyone has a photo of where the lines from the PCV hook up to, on a series 4 or 5 intake that would be great.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Your diagram looks fine, its the same as mine is setup, just hook up the remaining ports (the smaller ones) of the PCV as per the diagram.
(small bottom port on PCV leads to the vac nipple under the throttle body, and top port goes to one of the vac nipples on plenum chamber)

I also upsized the turbo suck pipe to 10mm and got the largest one way valve I could find at pick n payless. I think it was from an old ford brake booster.
I believe all other vent hoses will be 8mm. and the smaller ones for the PCV will the standard 4mm vac hose.

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 1:21 pm 
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sweet, thanks for your help mate!

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:49 pm 
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Hi, just trying to work out what pressure range the one way valves need to be, I've found some on ebay that are these pressure ranges:

Required Open Pressure: 0.8 bar (11psi) (Pressure Range:0.8 bar-6.0 bar (11 psi- 87 psi))

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8MM-5-16-Aluminium-One-Way-Non-Return-Fuel-Line-Check-Valve-Petrol-Diesel-Water-/141868317139?hash=item210802b9d3:g:GGMAAOSwhkRWgKIv

these other 2 look the same just different pressure ratings:
Pressure Range :1-100 PSI
Opening Pressure is 1 PSI, Suitable for Carburettor and low pressure side of fuel systems

Would any of these be suitable to use?

I Will be using the same setup as the photo below

Image[/quote]

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:47 pm 
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the later one is the go. system will work without the one way valve/s
though technically for some later model cars the emms system requires them for legalities

i use oversize ( 10 mm ) lines and fittings
and have the outlet actually in the filler cap and forgo the separation tank ,
dont get any noticeable carry over and always zero mustard under cap

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:45 pm 
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Read through this thread and while I've grasped the basic concept, most discussion has been on Fc/FD turbo set ups, PCV valves etc.
My resto has a 12A bridgeport with Weber IDA48 set up, old school, NA setup.

Here's a pic of my engine, the yellow tape on oil filler neck, and just below on top of centre plate are the venting ports.

Image

So Bump has said to use a sealed catch can, no breather/filter on the top. Ok.

I intend to add a vacuum line into the inlet manifold (1/4 NPT fitting)
This vacuum line will be connected to the can outlet.

Do I tee up both venting ports to the catch can on inlet side?

Or do I connect the lower one in the centre plate to a positive air supply for airflow through the crankcase? (Fresh air to be drawn in to crankcase, by vacuum from inlet manifold which is connected to the can)

Either connected back to the air cleaner or use a separate filter?

Also, my car (JDM RX-3) has a fuel tank venting line, that would have been connected to the carb, removing vapour from the small recirculation tank situated above the main tank.

You can see this line in the centre of this pic below the bonnet release.

http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=hag5y15w.tci.jpg

Should this line get vented to the catch can as well, or directly back to the inlet manifold?

Do I need to add in any one way valves, PCV's anywhere?

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Another piece of AusRotary gold saved! I've found cached versions of the most of the important images from this very useful tech ref thread and edited all of the posts to now link to working images.

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:41 am 
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Image

Image

ebay -
10mm (3/8") ALUMINIUM ONE WAY NON-RETURN CHECK VALVE- Petrol/Diesel/Water/Marine

ebay -
"push on" high performance rocker cover breather . holden

note the breather is as high as the fill point. note the direction of the one way valve
( another could be used after the can toward the turbo air filter if you wanted to eliminate all fumes even after shutdown )
take care take to position nipples so the oil wont flow into them as you fill

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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:02 pm 
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autokiwi wrote:
Read through this thread and while I've grasped the basic concept, most discussion has been on Fc/FD turbo set ups, PCV valves etc.
My resto has a 12A bridgeport with Weber IDA48 set up, old school, NA setup.

Here's a pic of my engine, the yellow tape on oil filler neck, and just below on top of centre plate are the venting ports.

Image

So Bump has said to use a sealed catch can, no breather/filter on the top. Ok.

I intend to add a vacuum line into the inlet manifold (1/4 NPT fitting)
This vacuum line will be connected to the can outlet.

Do I tee up both venting ports to the catch can on inlet side?

Or do I connect the lower one in the centre plate to a positive air supply for airflow through the crankcase? (Fresh air to be drawn in to crankcase, by vacuum from inlet manifold which is connected to the can)

Either connected back to the air cleaner or use a separate filter?

Also, my car (JDM RX-3) has a fuel tank venting line, that would have been connected to the carb, removing vapour from the small recirculation tank situated above the main tank.

You can see this line in the centre of this pic below the bonnet release.

http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=hag5y15w.tci.jpg

Should this line get vented to the catch can as well, or directly back to the inlet manifold?

Do I need to add in any one way valves, PCV's anywhere?



My setup is similar. This is the route I'm going down:

- Filler neck vent to small catch can (upper vent if you have 2, lower one capped off). Something like this: http://www.nicoclub.com/articles/images ... CV_003.jpg
- Outlet of catch can to one way non return valve to prevent backfire into line and crankcase.
- Outlet of non return valve to base of K&N filter.

This is just a basic system to prevent overpressure in the crankcase. If you plumbed this direct to the manifold you'd have excessive vacuum at idle and coasting.

If using a proper PCV valve could go direct into manifold but I don't have a spare port on the manifold and don't want to take the bloody thing off again.


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 Post subject: Re: How to properly setup an oil catch can (Bumpstarts Guide)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:53 am 
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Howsit guys

I have the "ordinary" style of catch can, lines into the can, big arse filter on top and that's it. I think it could be the/a reason why I get out of the car smelling a bit "oily or fummy...

Has anyone tried these bad boys?

Image

https://chiptuning.com.au/provent-style-oil-separators/

All references say "for turbo diesel", but I wonder if it could be used in petrol/rotary applications? They are also HP rated (the 200 is good for 350HP) for whatever reason.


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